From: M. Taylor Saotome-Westlake Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2021 18:50:57 +0000 (-0700) Subject: poke at Closetspace/Lease Bound joint review X-Git-Url: http://534655.efjtl6rk.asia/source?a=commitdiff_plain;h=491c8e238f26fb1f63508fe0808bd75f63c633b2;p=Ultimately_Untrue_Thought.git poke at Closetspace/Lease Bound joint review --- diff --git a/content/2021/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems.md b/content/2021/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems.md index 0c9fdec..96eb469 100644 --- a/content/2021/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems.md +++ b/content/2021/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems.md @@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ Another post in this vein that had a huge impact on me was ["Changing Emotions"] It would be hard to overstate how much of an impact this post had on me. I've previously linked it on [this](/2016/Nov/reply-to-ozy-on-two-type-mtf-taxonomy/#changing-emotions-link) [blog](/2017/Jan/the-line-in-the-sand-or-my-slippery-slope-anchoring-action-plan/#changing-emotions-link) [five](/2018/Apr/reply-to-the-unit-of-caring-on-adult-human-females/#changing-emotions-link) [different](/2018/Dec/untitled-metablogging-26-december-2018/#changing-emotions-link) [times](/2019/Aug/the-social-construction-of-reality-and-the-sheer-goddamned-pointlessness-of-reason/#changing-emotions-link). In June 2008, half a year before it was published, I encountered the [2004 Extropians mailing list post](https://archive.is/En6qW) that the blog post had clearly been revised from. (The fact that I was trawling through old mailing list archives searching for Yudkowsky content that I hadn't already read, tells you something about what a fanboy I am—if, um, you hadn't already noticed.) I immediately wrote to a friend: "[...] I cannot adequately talk about my feelings. Am I shocked, liberated, relieved, scared, angry, amused?" -The argument goes: it might be easy to _imagine_ changing sex and refer to the idea in a short English sentence, but the real physical world has implementation details, and the implementation details aren't filled in by the short English sentence. The human body, including the brain, is an enormously complex integrated organism; there's no [plug-and-play](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_and_play) architecture by which you can just swap your brain into a new body and have everything Just Work without re-mapping the connections in your motor cortex. And even that's not _really_ a sex change, as far as the whole integrated system is concerned— +The argument goes: it might be easy to _imagine_ changing sex and refer to the idea in a short English sentence, but the real physical world has implementation details, and the implementation details aren't filled in by the short English sentence. The human body, including the brain, is an enormously complex integrated organism; there's no [plug-and-play](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_and_play) architecture by which you can just swap your brain into a new body and have everything Just Work without re-mapping the connections in your motor cortex. And even that's not _really_ a sex change, as far as the whole integrated system is concerned— > Remapping the connections from the remapped somatic areas to the pleasure center will ... give you a vagina-shaped penis, more or less. That doesn't make you a woman. You'd still be attracted to girls, and no, that would not make you a lesbian; it would make you a normal, masculine man wearing a female body like a suit of clothing. > diff --git a/content/drafts/there-should-be-a-closetspace-lease-bound-crossover-fic.md b/content/drafts/there-should-be-a-closetspace-lease-bound-crossover-fic.md index fe43717..53d1054 100644 --- a/content/drafts/there-should-be-a-closetspace-lease-bound-crossover-fic.md +++ b/content/drafts/there-should-be-a-closetspace-lease-bound-crossover-fic.md @@ -12,13 +12,13 @@ I want to use the platform of my comparatively ("comparatively") obscure blog to The series follows Carrie and Allison as they face life's challenges—[their house gets attacked by a insurrectionist](http://www.dolari.org/cs/34.htm); Carrie gets [accidentally kidnapped by a dominatrix](http://www.dolari.org/cs/48.htm) [(who is _also_ trans)](http://www.dolari.org/cs/53.htm); [Allison copes with regrets about her own transition](http://www.dolari.org/cs/83.htm); Carrie's mom [has a stroke](http://www.dolari.org/cs/81.htm) [and dies](http://www.dolari.org/cs/153.htm), and Carrie [faces pushback](http://www.dolari.org/cs/160.htm) ([including from](http://www.dolari.org/cs/164.htm) her [previously mostly supportive](http://www.dolari.org/cs/15.htm) sister) after showing up [at the hospital](http://www.dolari.org/cs/90.htm) and [to the funeral](http://www.dolari.org/cs/158.htm) _as_ Carrie, causing her to [develop social anxiety](http://www.dolari.org/cs/178.htm); Allison [gets addicted to an old video game](http://www.dolari.org/cs/193.htm), connects with [an interior-decorating client](http://www.dolari.org/cs/116.htm) and [an old friend](http://www.dolari.org/cs/317.htm); Carrie's drag queen friend [also dies](http://www.dolari.org/cs/266.htm). -It wasn't something I noticed when I first encountered _Closetspace_ around 2010 or so, but knowing [what I know now](/2018/Jan/dont-negotiate-with-terrorist-memeplexes/), it's really striking how much the Blanchardian [two-type taxonomy](/tag/two-type-taxonomy/) shines through in the course of telling Carrie's story, not because the author intended any such reading, but because the taxonomic structure in human psychology is going to show up when you tell a story that's true to human life. (Recap for new readers: there are [two etiologically distinct types of male-to-female transsexuals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology)—an androphilic type coterminous with the most effeminate gay men, and an _autogynephilic_ type—["men who love women and want to become what they love"](http://unremediatedgender.space/papers/lawrence-becoming_what_we_love.pdf).) +It wasn't something I noticed when I first encountered _Closetspace_ around 2010 or so, but knowing [what I know now](/2018/Jan/dont-negotiate-with-terrorist-memeplexes/), it's really striking how much the Blanchardian [two-type taxonomy](/tag/two-type-taxonomy/) shines through in the course of telling Carrie's story, not because the author intended any such reading, but because the taxonomic structure in human psychology is going to show up when you tell a story that's true to human life. (Recap for new readers: there are [two etiologically distinct types of male-to-female transsexuals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology)—an androphilic type coterminous with the most effeminate gay men, and an _autogynephilic_ type—["men who love women and want to become what they love"](/papers/lawrence-becoming_what_we_love.pdf).) The author probably doesn't believe in the typology (if she's even heard of it), but _the traits line up anyway_. Carrie is straight—gynephilic (["Guys just aren't my thing"](http://www.dolari.org/cs/16.htm), she tells her sister). Carrie's gay (androphilic) drag queen friend Victor/Victoria [doesn't understand Carrie's motivations](http://www.dolari.org/cs/67.htm): "Not to mention you don't _think_ like one of 'them'", she comments on Carrie's lack of innate femininity. (Anyone can see that effeminate gay men taking on female roles "make sense"; autogynephilia is harder to understand if you haven't yourself felt the tug of the scintillating but ultimately untrue thought.) Heidi the (male) dominatrix [displays a working knowledge of the typology while coming on to Carrie](http://www.dolari.org/cs/268.htm): "We're both crossdressers, and we aren't anything like drag queens [...] sometimes I want to hang out with someone like me. Someone like you." Indeed! Likewise, Carrie's [beautiful pure sacred self-identity feelings](/2021/May/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems/#beautiful-pure-sacred-self-identity) (["And I feel a longing ... like I'd have a body like that once upon a time, and want it back"](http://www.dolari.org/cs/231.htm)) and [stirring post-transition](http://www.dolari.org/cs/239.htm) [meta-attraction](https://surveyanon.wordpress.com/2019/09/10/meta-attraction-cannot-account-for-all-autogynephiles-interest-in-men/) are _on type_. -A point of skepticism on the premise: it doesn't feel realistic to me that Allison doesn't clock Carrie given that Carrie is [_not on hormones yet_](http://www.dolari.org/cs/55.htm). Passing is _hard_, especially when you're _living with someone_, rather than just seeing them "in passing" in public. No one mistakes [the Texas insurrectionist woman](http://www.dolari.org/cs/23.htm) as a man even though she has short hair and wears men's clothes. And Carrie _sings_! (Vocal pitch is hugely sexually dimorphic; [one study reports](/papers/puts_et_al-masculine_voices_signal_mens_threat_potential.pdf) the sex difference in mean [fundamental frequency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_frequency) at Cohen's _d_ ≈ 5.7, which is so huge that I can't _quite_ take it at face value insofar as it implies that Tracy Chapman (whose [singing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwrHwZyFN7M) I've mis-sexed) should outright not exist, rather than merely being very rare.) I feel kind of vindicated that a [guest illustrator gave Carrie a realistically unfortunate face](http://www.dolari.org/cs/357.htm). +A point of skepticism on the premise: it doesn't feel realistic to me that Allison doesn't clock Carrie given that Carrie is [_not on hormones yet_](http://www.dolari.org/cs/55.htm). Passing is _hard_, especially when you're _living with someone_, rather than just seeing them "in passing" in public. No one mistakes [the Texas insurrectionist woman](http://www.dolari.org/cs/23.htm) as a man even though she has short hair and wears men's clothes. And Carrie _sings_! (Vocal pitch is hugely sexually dimorphic; [one study reports](/papers/puts_et_al-masculine_voices_signal_mens_threat_potential.pdf) the sex difference in mean [fundamental frequency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_frequency) at Cohen's _d_ ≈ 5.7, which is so huge that I can't quite take it at face value insofar as it implies that Tracy Chapman (whose [singing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwrHwZyFN7M) I've mis-sexed) should outright not exist, rather than merely being very rare.) I feel kind of vindicated that a [guest illustrator gave Carrie a realistically unfortunate face](http://www.dolari.org/cs/357.htm). Okay, Heidi [who _is_ on hormones](http://www.dolari.org/cs/340.htm) [lied to Allison to cover for Carrie once](http://www.dolari.org/cs/54.htm)—maybe that helped tip the scales after [the hypothesis had been promoted to Allison's attention](http://www.dolari.org/cs/57.htm)? How much work is being done by [the effect where it's easier to pass precisely when transsexualism is rare](/2020/Dec/crossing-the-line/)? Maybe Allison in particular is just (autistically? self-deceptively?) really oblivious? (["I thought I knew what to look for."](http://www.dolari.org/cs/255.htm)) Allison and Carrie do [get](http://www.dolari.org/cs/175.htm) [clocked](http://www.dolari.org/cs/177.htm) by restaurant waitstaff, to [Carrie's discomfort](http://www.dolari.org/cs/178.htm) and [Allison's obliviousness](http://www.dolari.org/cs/179.htm). @@ -30,8 +30,18 @@ _Lease Bound_ is the story of Jaden and Riley, two [typical](https://leasebound. Jaden works as a bouncer as a female-only nightclub and is surprised one night when three crossdressed men try to enter. When Jaden politely refuses them (["Sorry to disappoint, but this is actually a women's only venue. If you're looking for a great night though, there's a fantastic gay bar just a few blocks from here."](https://leasebound.com/comic/c3p09/)), they don't take it well (["We are women, sweetheart. _Trans_ women. Understand now?"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c3p11/)), and a scuffle ensues in which [Jaden gets bruised up](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p08/). -Jaden, despite having [gone to college](https://leasebound.com/comic/c1p08/) (perhaps, at the University of Under a Rock?), has a normie's obliviousness to why the assailants felt entitled to enter the club: ["What the _fuck_ is a 'trance' woman?"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p10/) she asks coworkers. ["Were they part of MadMarch"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p18/)—[festival season in Adelaide](https://exploringsouthaustralia.com.au/reasons-to-visit-adelaide-in-mad-march/)—["or was I seriously supposed to believe they were women?"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p18/) The coworkers explain: ["You know those guys who say they're _lesbians trapped in a man's body_?" "They're like that, but dead serious."](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p19/) +Jaden, despite having [gone to college](https://leasebound.com/comic/c1p08/) (perhaps, at the University of Under a Rock?), is oblivious as to why the assailants felt entitled to enter the club: ["What the _fuck_ is a 'trance' woman?"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p10/) she asks coworkers. ["Were they part of MadMarch"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p18/)—[festival season in Adelaide](https://exploringsouthaustralia.com.au/reasons-to-visit-adelaide-in-mad-march/)—["or was I seriously supposed to believe they were women?"](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p18/) Her colleagues explain: ["You know those guys who say they're _lesbians trapped in a man's body_?" "They're like that, but dead serious."](https://leasebound.com/comic/c4p19/) When [Riley expresses concern for Jaden's bruises the next morning](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p31/), Jaden [admits that "a few men kicked up a fuss at the club last night."](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p35/) Riley [assumes the troublemakers were homophobes protesting lesbianism](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p39/); Jaden says she [doesn't know what they were about](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p40/), but that they "[called themselves _trance, women_, or something. I can't really remember.](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p41/) [...] [I didn't really get it either. But hey, that's straight men for you, haha!](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p42/)" -Riley, who has not been living under a rock, [feels ideologically uncomfortable with Jaden's account](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p55/)—Riley feels morally obligated to be a good ally, but isn't personally zealous enough to correct Jaden's speech. Riley starts to [worry that her girlfriend Blaire will start a quarrel if transwomen come up in conversation when meeting Jaden](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p59/). (_Transwomen_ is spelled as one word in Riley's thoughts, but we imagine Blaire is the kind of person insists that it's two.) The meeting goes fine thanks to Jaden's continued obliviousness; [when Blaire asks Jaden what pronouns she prefers, Jaden (momentarily distracted by Riley nervously dropping a glass) mishears the question and replies, "The way you pronounced it just the was fine."](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch8p6/) Later, Blaire [asks Riley if Jaden might be trans](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p2/) [and not know it](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p4/). +Riley, who has not been living under a rock, [feels ideologically uncomfortable with Jaden's account](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p55/)—Riley feels morally obligated to be a good ally, but isn't personally zealous enough to correct Jaden's speech. Riley starts to [worry that her girlfriend Blaire will start a quarrel if transwomen come up in conversation when meeting Jaden](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch6p59/). (_Transwomen_ is spelled as one word in Riley's thoughts, but we imagine Blaire is the kind of person insists that it's two.) The meeting goes fine thanks to Jaden's continued obliviousness; [when Blaire asks Jaden what pronouns she prefers, Jaden (momentarily distracted by Riley nervously dropping a glass) mishears the question and replies, "The way you pronounced it just the was fine."](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch8p6/) Later, Blaire [asks Riley if Jaden might be trans](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p2/) [and not know it](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p4/), causing Riley to [grapple with the contradictions of the reigning ideology](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p6/) and [muse about her own "gender"](https://leasebound.com/comic/ch9p8/). + +_Lease Bound_ is actively updating. I'm really looking forward to the brewing ideological conflict (between Blaire's doctrinal purity and Jaden's normie common sense) becoming overt. + +----- + +There are a lot of obvious and striking parallels betwen these two slice-of-life webcomics about unexpected sexual-minority roommmates keeping secrets from each other—even the titles match (two words, the first alluding to the roommate-drama setting, Closet/Lease, Space/Bound). I like both of them, and I think it's sad that the natural fan demographic of each probably mostly hates the other's guts. Gender-critical lesbians aren't going look sympathetically on the protagonists of _Closetspace_, and trans women aren't going to read _Lease Bound_, which portrays them as predatory bullies. The conflict is understandable, but the magnitude of it seems ... _unnecessary_; I think a _smarter_ world would be able to compile all the relevant facts and broker some sort of Pareto-efficient compromise that gets everyone _most_ of what they want. + +Carrie has a compelling interest in being able to modify her body and social presentation without being socially punished for it: though humans [can't actually change sex with currently-existing technology](/2021/May/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-in-relation-to-my-gender-problems/#changing-sex-is-hard), one could at least be permitted to try to approximate it. + +Simultaneously, the proprietors of Yonique have a compelling interest in being able to declare membership criteria for their private club. \ No newline at end of file